[ENG] KESSY nad Engine-Start button retrofit

[Nycdub7]

Good Day Wszyscy, To jest mój pierwszy post tutaj na tym forum. Przywracam ten wątek z martwych, gdy próbuję zmodernizować start przycisku w moim B6. Obecnie mam już zmodernizowane 3AA 087J BCM, 3AA 799C Kessy i kessy, wszystkie anteny i uchwyty, bramkę 7N0 ... BG, B7 SWCM, 3AA EPB, konsolę środkową B7 i przyciski konsoli środkowej B7. Jestem z USA, więc nie ma tutaj Euro B7. Zrobiłem wszystkie okablowanie do startu przycisku B7, z wyjątkiem tego, że C14 jest zaciskiem 50, a C31 jest zaciskiem 15, jak na B6, ale rozrusznik włącza się tylko na jedną sekundę. Gdyby te dwa przewody miały być zgodne z B7 (C14 i C31 na zacisku 15), rozrusznik pozostaje włączony. Potrzebuję pomocy, aby rozwiązać ten problem i mam nadzieję, że ktoś tutaj może mi w tym pomóc. Mam dostęp do VCDS, VCP, ODIS i ELSAWin.

PS: Przepraszam, nie mówię ani nie piszę po polsku, ale używam google translate do czytania tutaj.
 

[Albercik]

13 godzin temu, Nycdub7 napisał:

z wyjątkiem tego, że C14 jest zaciskiem 50, a C31 jest zaciskiem 15, jak na B6,

 

13 godzin temu, Nycdub7 napisał:

(C14 i C31 na zacisku 15), rozrusznik pozostaje włączony.

How did you wired the start/stop button? According to wiring diagrams, in the connector below the buttons (26-pin) these are the connections:
- pin 8 | brown | 0.5mm2 | ground connection 32
- pin 15 | yellow/blue | 0.5mm2 | signal from start/stop button (goes to pin 12 of T32G connector in BCM)
- pin 16 | yellow/grey | 0.5mm2 | signal from start/stop button (goes to pin 13 of T32G connector in BCM)
- pin 17 | brown | 0.5mm2 | ground connection for button illumination
- pin 18 | yellow/black | 0.5mm2 | positive signal for button illumination (goes to pin 24 of T32G connector in BCM)

Going further - there are two wires that need to go from the BCM to a steering wheel controller:
- BCM T32g pin 31 (green/grey, 0.5mm2) to T16o pin 14
- BCM T32g pin 3 (green, 0.5mm2) to T16o pin 7

[Nycdub7]

I used a Chinese Kessy adapter harness which I checked all pinout with ELSAwin and all is good. All of those pins are as per B7, except that C14(BCM) is to Terminal 50 and C31(BCM) is to Terminal 15 as per B6. The keyfob & kessy dummy keyfob works normally but button does not. As you know B6 does not have wire from ECM J623(T94/xx) to start module J942(T32g/22) like B7. I also have fault code in 09 BCM of 03678 - Coordinator for Start-Stop Operation - 004 No Signal/Communication. 

[Albercik]

17 godzin temu, Nycdub7 napisał:

I also have fault code in 09 BCM of 03678 - Coordinator for Start-Stop Operation - 004 No Signal/Communication.

That's nothing unusual - your car doesn't have a start/stop system. 

If I remember correctly - the button for keyless start in B7 was available only in cars with start/stop system. And that may be an issue here.

Edytowane 30 Lipca 2019 przez Albercik

[Nycdub7]

I understand that start stop coordinator applies with the start stop system but push button only requires KESSY system. Now when using keyfob or dummy terminal 50 gets constant power as contacts are held down for it in ignition switch, but when using push button terminal 50 only gets one second of power no matter how long or fast you press the button so starter only engages for only one second. This is the problem that I'm having and I'm stuck here. All else works as it should. There is a possibility that start stop system may be needed, but don't know what components are needed for it or what diagrams in ELSAWin apply to start stop system. Any help would be appreciated.  

[Nycdub7]

B6/Passat CC have the brake light switch on the brake master cylinder,  and is already engaged for starting so there is no need for brake pedal to be depress when  starting. I have considered that this could be an issue when using the button as both acc & ignition come on at the same time and may interfere with immo. I can install the B7/CC brake light switch & wire it so when depressed it engages the ignition kinda as B7/CC implies it.  

[Albercik]

First of all - the B7 does require the brake pedal to be pressed during start (at least for DSG gearbox). Without the brake pedal pressed - the ignition (power) will turn on, but starter won't start to spin.

If you want the button to do its job - you need to do all the wirings as much original as you can with Kessy and Start/Stop fully running. 

Dnia 30.07.2019 o 19:18, Nycdub7 napisał:

but don't know what components are needed for it or what diagrams in ELSAWin apply to start stop system

You'll need a different starter, alternator, ECU soft (yours won't be having an option to code s/s system), battery regulator (the module mounted on a positive battery clamp with CAN BUS wired) etc. A stop lights switch is the least of your worries at the moment

Edytowane 5 Sierpnia 2019 przez Albercik

[Nycdub7]

2012+ Passat B7 & CC require brake pedal to be pressed to start but not 2005-2011 Passat CC & Passat B6. MY08 does not require the brake pedal to be pressed to start. My friends 13 CC has the same BCM as me but does not have start stop and no fault for start stop coordinator but I do and I have compared coding with mine. What I'm asking is can I code or adapt out start stop? I do not have start stop anyway. 

[Albercik]

There'e no possibility to code out a start/stop system. A s/s depends on the ECU only. So, if the ECU doesn't support s/s then other components will be aware of that.

However... A start button won't start the engine if there's no s/s.

[Nycdub7]

Not true as I was able to start the car with the button and as stated no start stop from factory in car but that was wiring completely based on B7 so on B6 starter will stay engaged. Wiring mostly on B7, B6 electronic ignition switch works as should but with button gives one second of  power to terminal 50 so no start then. This is where I'm stuck at as trying to find a way to hold down button to work as switch. Now there are other people who have completed this but either don't remember/lost info or can't sign up for Drive2 to contact others who can help. So i'm turning here for help. 

[Nycdub7]

There is a person named 46otdmil who has made a emulator for this coordinator issue which should be the answer to my problems but he is on Drive2 and the system is down to sign up for that site. Do you know of this person and if so do you have any contact?

[Albercik]

10 godzin temu, Nycdub7 napisał:

I was able to start the car with the button and as stated no start stop from factory in car

Yes, but..

10 godzin temu, Nycdub7 napisał:

that was wiring completely based on B7 so on B6 starter will stay engage

The B7's starter is quite different and this starter is designed for start/stop system

10 godzin temu, Nycdub7 napisał:

Do you know of this person and if so do you have any contact?

Sorry to say, but no - I don't

[Nycdub7]

I know that I'm late in this topic but I have retrofitted 3C0 CCM to 3AA Kessy CCM and the immo/CS info can be transferred from 3C0 to 3AA but only need kessy keys and kessy harness & antennas. Kessy door handles are the same for B6 & B7, there is no difference. There is also the start stop fault code when retrofitting CECM to BCM. 08+ door modules work with 3AA but have safe lock issue.

[radekrp90]

You have right - IMMO data transfer betwen 3C0 and 3AA is possible, but only if we are trying do it on units of the same type. It means if You would like to transfer IMMO from nonKessy 3C0 unit to 3AA Kessy unit it will fail, even transfer betwen nonKessy 3C0 to Kessy 3C0 is immpossible by use of simple EEPROM programer. As I know, it can by done by tools which are designed esspecialy for key/IMMO copy making.

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Masz rację - transfer danych IMMO między 3C0 i 3AA jest możliwy, ale tylko wtedy, gdy próbujemy to zrobić na modułach tego samego typu. Oznacza to, że jeśli chcesz przenieść IMMO z modułu nonKessy 3C0 do urządzenia 3AA Kessy, to się nie powiedzie, nawet przeniesienie pomiędzy urządzeniem nonKessy 3C0 do Kessy 3C0 jest niemożliwe za pomocą prostego programatora EEPROM. Jak wiem, można to zrobić za pomocą narzędzi zaprojektowanych specjalnie do tworzenia kopii kluczy / IMMO.

[Nycdub7]

It does work as I have already done it to my car which I have went from 3C0 non-kessy to 3AA Kessy. I just had to get new keys and match keys to CCM. I am currently using this 3AA kessy that was transferred and all is working correctly.